Curse

Manderlock · Sep 16, 2005, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

There are too many retards in the post to reply to all at once. So, I will begin with a series of generalities.

Your preference in music is by no means a measure of "good taste". In fact, if I were to follow in the paths of logic many people have displayed, I could criticize you all for having crappy taste - I would be able to argue that orchestral pieces are "true" music. Perhaps not a very strong backing, but it would be as valid as most of the drivel I've read so far. Get over yourself. You are not a musical-genius-god-of-everything-define-tastes-in-your-narrow-minded-stupidity. Actually, I would like to correct what I said. The second half of that title beginning with "narrow" would apply most people here.

In short, as soon as you make an umbrella statement like "rap sucksorz!" or a retarded anecdote such as "kant spel CRAP withowt RAP lolorz hahahahhh lolozzz sucksozr!", you lose all credibility.

Some of the rappers of recent years have been some outstanding poets 2Pac, Kanye just to name a couple. I still stand by my stament that rap isent music. It would need some musicality for it to be considered music.

Rap is the speaking of poems with a beat in the background.

demontrace · Sep 17, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Some of the rappers of recent years have been some outstanding poets 2Pac, Kanye just to name a couple. I still stand by my stament that rap isent music. It would need some musicality for it to be considered music.

Rap is the speaking of poems with a beat in the background.

Manderlock, when did you become the authority on rap music? Obviously you haven't listened to every rap ever made, or you wouldn't make such a bold generalization like that.

If you wanna keep it simple, Rap is music. Look up a definition. I haven't seen any definitions that claims rap is poetry, with a beat

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by demontrace

Manderlock, when did you become the authority on rap music? Obviously you haven't listened to every rap ever made, or you wouldn't make such a bold generalization like that.

If you wanna keep it simple, Rap is music. Look up a definition. I haven't seen any definitions that claims rap is poetry, with a beat

I am not an authority on rap "music", but I know music very well so before you turn this into a flame war. Stop and think to yourself if you have any idea about what you are talking about.

I never said rap was bad, I like some of it. It is not music though.

How old are you to be definding rap in this way? I can remeber when I was 12 and that was all I listened to, I might have been ignorant enough to say that it was music. But not now.

demontrace · Sep 17, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

So you're refusing to use a dictionary? Cause I remember the days when those were almost intimidating.

And it's not so much that I'm defending rap, as I'm fighting illogical statements and generalizations. People claiming things, that they know nothing about. Stating all rap is bad, without having listened to ALL rap. I hate to see people say something inane, and then see multiple others agree. It's sad, and perhaps it's the teachers blood in me that makes me want to show these people another view. I won't claim that my way is the only way, but if people want to be ignorant, I'd like to at least say I tried to help them out.

Rap isn't the only music I listen to, I simply cannot keep myself to one genre. I might be listening to Tupac one day, and Elton John the next. Genres change as my mood does, which is one of those reasons why so many different types of music exists. The person tapped into their soul, and that emotion flowed out of their body to create the music that anyone can experience. When I listen to the music, perhaps I'm feeling a little bit of what that artist was feeling, at that moment.

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by demontrace

So you're refusing to use a dictionary? Cause I remember the days when those were almost intimidating.

And it's not so much that I'm defending rap, as I'm fighting illogical statements and generalizations. People claiming things, that they know nothing about. Stating all rap is bad, without having listened to ALL rap. I hate to see people say something inane, and then see multiple others agree. It's sad, and perhaps it's the teachers blood in me that makes me want to show these people another view. I won't claim that my way is the only way, but if people want to be ignorant, I'd like to at least say I tried to help them out.

Rap isn't the only music I listen to, I simply cannot keep myself to one genre. I might be listening to Tupac one day, and Elton John the next. Genres change as my mood does, which is one of those reasons why so many different types of music exists. The person tapped into their soul, and that emotion flowed out of their body to create the music that anyone can experience. When I listen to the music, perhaps I'm feeling a little bit of what that artist was feeling, at that moment.

Yea I know thats like saying that tommatos are bad, and havent even eaten them all.

I doubt you remeber the days of anything your a young one in my eyes. Rap IS NOT MUSIC. Once you get into college go up and ask the head chior dirctor if rap is music. He/She will tell you almost exacly what I am telling you now.

If you had read my posts above you would have seen that I do not belive in musical genres. Good music is good music, wether its to your specific taste or not.

demontrace · Sep 17, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Yea I know thats like saying that you hate tommatos, and havent even eaten them all.

I doubt you remeber the days of anything your a young one in my eyes. Rap IS NOT MUSIC. Once you get into college go up and ask go up and ask the head chior dirctor rap its music. He/She will tell you almost exacly what I am telling you now.

I you had carred to read my posts above you would have seen that I do not belive in musical genres. Good music is good music, wether its to your specific taste or not.

I don't understand why you have to make this so personal. My age should have nothing to do with my musical taste. I am not a rap fanatic. I can't listen to every type out there...a LOT of it IS crap. But there are certain artists out there that redeem the entire genre for me. It IS music. Read the dictionary. Shoot, read how a word gets into the dictionary.

http://www.m-w.com/help/faq/words_in.htm

In the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, one of the definitions for rap, is

Main Entry: 5 rap
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): rapped; rap·ping
Etymology: perhaps from 1rap
1 : to talk freely and frankly
2 : to perform rap music

Main Entry: 6 rap
Function: noun
1 : TALK, CONVERSATION; also : a line of talk : PATTER
2 a : a rhythmic chanting often in unison of usually rhymed couplets to a musical accompaniment b : a piece so performed

If you go to Dictionary.com, and look it up: under the fourth entry you will find even more information stating that it is a type of music. I didn't wanna have to come to this point of having to actually provide references, but apparently I've been left no other choice.

No doubt, even with this information, you STILL won't believe me, because you're so much older and wiser than me, as you seem to want to claim. Your opinion is fixed on, "Rap IS NOT music," and no matter how long I argue with you, it's highly doubtful your opinion will change. Whatever, that's life, but starting to make things go personal, bringing up my age and whatnot, I'd say your credibility really starts to falter.

If it makes you feel any better, or how about this; if it makes you feel like you're better than me, I'm in my 20s

Dark Kanaye · Sep 17, 2005, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Rap wishes it could be good enough to be considered noise

AHMEN!!!

johnnylange · Sep 17, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bueno Star

wtf? how can you tell what its about? all i hear is AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHHH YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Maybe they were expressing some of the frustrations you encounter while playing..."AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHHH YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH, YOU F***ing NOOB! WHY DID YOU GO AND ARGO ALL THOSE HYDRAS!" lol,

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by demontrace

I don't understand why you have to make this so personal. My age should have nothing to do with my musical taste. I am not a rap fanatic. I can't listen to every type out there...a LOT of it IS crap. But there are certain artists out there that redeem the entire genre for me. It IS music. Read the dictionary. Shoot, read how a word gets into the dictionary.

http://www.m-w.com/help/faq/words_in.htm

In the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, one of the definitions for rap, is

Main Entry: 5 rap
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): rapped; rap·ping
Etymology: perhaps from 1rap
1 : to talk freely and frankly
2 : to perform rap music

Main Entry: 6 rap
Function: noun
1 : TALK, CONVERSATION; also : a line of talk : PATTER
2 a : a rhythmic chanting often in unison of usually rhymed couplets to a musical accompaniment b : a piece so performed

If you go to Dictionary.com, and look it up: under the fourth entry you will find even more information stating that it is a type of music. I didn't wanna have to come to this point of having to actually provide references, but apparently I've been left no other choice.

No doubt, even with this information, you STILL won't believe me, because you're so much older and wiser than me, as you seem to want to claim. Your opinion is fixed on, "Rap IS NOT music," and no matter how long I argue with you, it's highly doubtful your opinion will change. Whatever, that's life, but starting to make things go personal, bringing up my age and whatnot, I'd say your credibility really starts to falter.

If it makes you feel any better, or how about this; if it makes you feel like you're better than me, I'm in my 20s

You were the one that started geting this argument personal with your first quote of me. I know for a fact that I am more credible that you when speaking on music. All-state 3 years in a row with ones in the solos that I performed at various contest.

That is where your argument faulters. If you have to use the dictionary when speaking of an artform, you know nothing of what you are talking about, and it is honestly quit funny.

I cant see why you would single out me for your ill-fated argument. I did say that rap is an artform, not noise not that it sucks. Rap is not something that anyone can do, it is dificult just as writing a song is. What separates rap from music is that Rap dosent take the next step in musical compisition, the addition of notes to go along with the words. This is of course talking about the 2Pacs and the Kanyes, not the 50 cents and ludacrisis. Why do you think that some high schools are begining to look at 2Pac's works as poetry?

Sai of Winter · Sep 17, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwfiend

haha its funny check it out either site.

http://www.purevolume.com/avaricetolace
or
http://www.myspace.com/avaricetolace

enjoy lol

Wow...that was some bad music or if you can actually call it music. Why are these "emocore" or "sreamo" bands even trying? They can't even do death metal-like screams or compose any good music. I'm glad European bands didn't break into the emo scene and glad that some American bands stay out of the scene. I've also noticed that some American bands are finally putting in some guitar solos in their songs. Thank goodness! Finally they're composing well-thought out music.

Scenesters will come to an End and so will their music.
(I will give them a few months that they'll last)

P.S. If you're wondering I'm American, Asian-American that is.

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sai of Winterland

Wow...that was some bad music or if you can actually call it music. Why are these emocore bands even trying? They can't even do death metal-like screams. I'm glad European bands didn't break into the emo scene and glad that some American bands stay out of the scene. I've also noticed that some American bands are finally putting in some guitar solos in their songs. Thank goodness! Finally they're composing well-thought out music.

Scenesters will come to an End and so will their music.
(I will give them a few months that they'll last)

P.S. If you're wondering I'm American, Asian-American that is.

Yes, I would have to agree. These guys will not win an award any time soon.

demontrace · Sep 17, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

And yet you continuously have to try to one-up me on a personal level. Oh I was all-state 3 years in a row...after the bringing up of ages failed. You stated earlier that you're not the authority on rap music, but apparently you take the cake on music itself.

PLEASE, define what "music" is. If you can tell me time and time again what music ISN'T, then tell me what it IS. It's gonna be one hell of a definition, that'll either garner the respect of musicians everywhere, or will have you be the one that is "honestly quit funny"

You continuously make these statements, yet you DON'T back them up...and you say my credibility falters. At least I brought some references to the table, maybe you don't like the idea that they're from a dictionary, but we are arguing on whether or not rap is music. In a definitive sense, Rap IS music, as you can see in the dictionary. I provided you a link to find out how a word even makes it into the dictionary. The decision to allow rap into the dictionary as a musical form, meant that rap must have been used by multiple sources, and those multiple sources all agreed it was music.

Perhaps you can find an example of a rap where notes don't go along with the words, but can you tell me that in every rap available to the public to listen, there isn't a single one where there is a lack of notes with the words? Maybe that's too lofty a task I've given you, but then that's why you don't state your answer with such certainly. Statements like, "I know for a fact" get my attention, cause I wonder how you KNOW or can be CERTAIN on anything at all. Did you look up my history on some computer?

Whatever, I'm pretty much done with this. As I've said before, you got an opinion, it obviously isn't changing, and with your musical mastery, maybe you can redefine the rap genre, and prove to every artist that their "music" is not "music"

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by demontrace

And yet you continuously have to try to one-up me on a personal level. Oh I was all-state 3 years in a row...after the bringing up of ages failed. You stated earlier that you're not the authority on rap music, but apparently you take the cake on music itself.

PLEASE, define what "music" is. If you can tell me time and time again what music ISN'T, then tell me what it IS. It's gonna be one hell of a definition, that'll either garner the respect of musicians everywhere, or will have you be the one that is "honestly quit funny"

You continuously make these statements, yet you DON'T back them up...and you say my credibility falters. At least I brought some references to the table, maybe you don't like the idea that they're from a dictionary, but we are arguing on whether or not rap is music. In a definitive sense, Rap IS music, as you can see in the dictionary. I provided you a link to find out how a word even makes it into the dictionary. The decision to allow rap into the dictionary as a musical form, meant that rap must have been used by multiple sources, and those multiple sources all agreed it was music.

Perhaps you can find an example of a rap where notes don't go along with the words, but can you tell me that in every rap available to the public to listen, there isn't a single one where there is a lack of notes with the words? Maybe that's too lofty a task I've given you, but then that's why you don't state your answer with such certainly. Statements like, "I know for a fact" get my attention, cause I wonder how you KNOW or can be CERTAIN on anything at all. Did you look up my history on some computer?

Whatever, I'm pretty much done with this. As I've said before, you got an opinion, it obviously isn't changing, and with your musical mastery, maybe you can redefine the rap genre, and prove to every artist that their "music" is not "music"

*sigh* I really dont think that I atacked you in my last post, but you seem to think so. I know for a fact because if you had any indepth knowlege of music you wouldnt run to a dictionary.

It is hard to explain music to someone that dosent know what it is. I know that I will not be able to portray what is music to you, and I really hope that you somehow find a way to look up from the dictionary and learn what music truly is.

I am sorry for offending you in any case. Music is what I am and for someone to call me out on it really pisses me off.

pyrohex · Sep 17, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Genre is simply a human device for organizing and sorting music of different textures. Forgive me for saying this, but denying genre feels to me like a half thought out attempt at modernism. You can't deny that music by the old masters - from Mozart to Tchaikovsky to Sibelius - greatly differs from the music you hear made by John Mayer, or Howie Day, or Jason Mraz. Likewise, Jars of Clay, Sixpence None the Richer, Lifehouse - sound different as well.

Quote:

I know for a fact because if you had any indepth knowlege of music you wouldnt run to a dictionary.

Please tell me what defines a word other than greater society. Yes, definitions are amorphous, but, using a cliché, you can't call an apple and orange.

Quote:

It is hard to explain music to someone that dosent know what it is. I know that I will not be able to portray what is music to you, and I really hope that you somehow find a way to look up from the dictionary and learn what music truly is.

You're sidestepping his request. After reading this, I would really like for you to enlighten me on the subject - in specific terms. You need more than feeling to define something. That is, only if you want to be understood.

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

Genre is simply a human device for organizing and sorting music of different textures. Forgive me for saying this, but denying genre feels to me like a half thought out attempt at modernism. You can't deny that music by the old masters - from Mozart to Tchaikovsky to Sibelius - greatly differs from the music you hear made by John Mayer, or Howie Day, or Jason Mraz. Likewise, Jars of Clay, Sixpence None the Richer, Lifehouse - sound different as well.

Please tell me what defines a word other than greater society. Yes, definitions are amorphous, but, using a cliché, you can't call an apple and orange.

You're sidestepping his request. After reading this, I would really like for you to enlighten me on the subject - in specific terms. You need more than feeling to define something. That is, only if you want to be understood.

Well I was ready to let this die. But.....

Its not of your consern that I do not belive in musical genres. That is how I truly belive, much like Beck, but Im not to shure youve heard of him.

Music is a living breathing form of art, a dictionary could never capture what art is. Never.

You my friend are missing the point, the arts are all about the feelings you get when you hear/see/watch them. I wish with all my heart that you and everyone I have ever talked to could listen and understand the extasy that I feel when I listen to true musical masterminds. But I know that it will not/can not happen.

Link Ironhammer · Sep 17, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

I listen to any kind of music that i seem to enjoy

demontrace · Sep 17, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manderlock

Well I was ready to let this die. But.....

Its not of your consern that I do not belive in musical genres. That is how I truly belive, much like Beck, but Im not to shure youve heard of him.

Music is a living breathing form of art, a dictionary could never capture what art is. Never.

You my friend are missing the point, the arts are all about the feelings you get when you hear/see/watch them. I wish with all my heart that you and everyone I have ever talked to could listen and understand the extasy that I feel when I listen to the true musical masterminds. But I know that it will not/can not happen.

I really feel like you got some kind of superiority complex going on, because you keep wording your text in such a way, as to make it seem like everyone else is an idiot, like the Beck comment. It's nice to see, also, that I'm not the only one that's been subject to that.

It's like you put your accolades on a level that no one else could possibly reach. Like how you believe I have no experience in music at all. I can read music, I can play music. I can play someone else's song, or make up my own. It doesn't really matter to me. I've been playing since I was a kid. My voice isn't everything I'd like it to be, but I understand I have talent with an instrument, the piano in particular. To me it's very easy to play, and sounds beautiful.

You are correct in saying that no one can feel the ecstacy that you feel when you listen to the true musical masterminds. However, it doesn't mean that ecstacy is something beyond other listeners. Their ecstacy is sure to be different from your ecstacy. How you experience things is unique to you, and you alone.

You still have not told us what music is, however....

Link Ironhammer · Sep 17, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Wow a song about GW? who cares? I have heard songs about Legend of Zelda and Super Mario Bros.

Manderlock · Sep 17, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by demontrace

I really feel like you got some kind of superiority complex going on, because you keep wording your text in such a way, as to make it seem like everyone else is an idiot, like the Beck comment. It's nice to see, also, that I'm not the only one that's been subject to that.

It's like you put your accolades on a level that no one else could possibly reach. Like how you believe I have no experience in music at all. I can read music, I can play music. I can play someone else's song, or make up my own. It doesn't really matter to me. I've been playing since I was a kid. My voice isn't everything I'd like it to be, but I understand I have talent with an instrument, the piano in particular. To me it's very easy to play, and sounds beautiful.

You are correct in saying that no one can feel the ecstacy that you feel when you listen to the true musical masterminds. However, it doesn't mean that ecstacy is something beyond other listeners. Their ecstacy is sure to be different from your ecstacy. How you experience things is unique to you, and you alone.

You still have not told us what music is, however....

I really doubt that he has heard of Beck, my experinces have tought me that very few people that listen to rap have a true apperiation of artists like Beck. Thats all......

I am trying to, but it is difficult, and like I have said it is hard to explain music to others. In college they have whole courses that only deal with "What is music"

It is to true that how I experince things is diferent than others, but Im shure that people that know music back me when I say that rap is not music.

I still find it humorous that you two would pick me out. Just looking at the other post about how "rap sucks" tells me that ether
1. You would rather Rap just suck than be considered an artfrom
2.........well thats about all I can think of

I figured that you rap fans would be glad someone eles deffended what you listen to, but instead you try and crucify me.

You are right that the Piano is a wonderfly beutiful insterment, I can play the guitar and am learning how to play the piano ( I use to be able to, but have forgotten how)

EDIT: I really wish that you would stop call the kettel black as the saying gos, I am not the only one offending here.

pyrohex · Sep 17, 2005, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

I really doubt that he has heard of Beck, my experinces have tought me that very few people that listen to rap have a true apperiation of artists like Beck. Thats all......

Please point to me where I have ever stated that I listen to rap. You'll notice my first contribution to the thread was merely pointing out the ridiculous nature of the majority of the other contributions here.

Okay, lets say musical genres don't exist - doesn't matter.

Now, let's get to the point.

Quote:

Well I was ready to let this die. But.....

Its not of your consern that I do not belive in musical genres. That is how I truly belive, much like Beck, but Im not to shure youve heard of him.

Music is a living breathing form of art, a dictionary could never capture what art is. Never.

You my friend are missing the point, the arts are all about the feelings you get when you hear/see/watch them. I wish with all my heart that you and everyone I have ever talked to could listen and understand the extasy that I feel when I listen to true musical masterminds. But I know that it will not/can not happen.

I really doubt that he has heard of Beck, my experinces have tought me that very few people that listen to rap have a true apperiation of artists like Beck. Thats all......

I am trying to, but it is difficult, and like I have said it is hard to explain music to others. In college they have whole courses that only deal with "What is music"

It is to true that how I experince things is diferent than others, but Im shure that people that know music back me when I say that rap is not music.

I still find it humorous that you two would pick me out. Just looking at the other post about how "rap sucks" tells me that ether
1. You would rather Rap just suck than be considered an artfrom
2.........well thats about all I can think of

I figured that you rap fans would be glad someone eles deffended what you listen to, but instead you try and crucify me.

You are right that the Piano is a wonderfly beutiful insterment, I can play the guitar and am learning how to play the piano ( I use to be able to, but have forgotten how)

EDIT: I really wish that you would stop call the kettel black as the saying gos, I am not the only one offending here.

Quote:

I am trying to, but it is difficult, and like I have said it is hard to explain music to others. In college they have whole courses that only deal with "What is music"

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you even tried to address the question "What is music?" in either of those posts. You're making feeble excuses to sidestep my question. So I'm asking again, please enlighten me on the subject. You do, of course, have the credentials to do so.

Quote:

I still find it humorous that you two would pick me out. Just looking at the other post about how "rap sucks" tells me that ether
1. You would rather Rap just suck than be considered an artfrom
2.........well thats about all I can think of

I figured that you rap fans would be glad someone eles deffended what you listen to, but instead you try and crucify me.

I have no quibbles with you calling rap a form of art. What annoys me about you in your blatant arrogance and superiority complex - not to mention your almost political aversion to actually giving a direct answer.